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U.S. Department of State - Great Seal

U.S. Department of State

Diplomacy in Action

The Role of a Delegate

Craig Dunn, Chairman, Howard County, Indiana GOP
Cleveland, OH
July 20, 2016




Date: 07/20/2016 Location: Cleveland, OH Description: Craig Dunn, Chairman of the Howard County, Indiana GOP, speaks to journalists about the role of a delegate at the Republican National Convention. - State Dept Image

5:30 P.M. EDT

THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, CLEVELAND, OH

MODERATOR: This is our last briefing of the day, and I just want to remind everybody to turn their electronic devices off if you haven’t already done so. Also, as with all of our briefings at the conventions, the views expressed are of the speaker not of the U.S. government. After remarks, we’ll follow with Q&A. And please state your name and your media outlet. Afterwards, Chairman Dunn will be available for one-on-ones if you’d like to have them.

It gives me great pleasure today to introduce Chairman Craig Dunn. He is the Chairman of the GOP party for Howard County, Indiana. And if anybody doesn’t know where that is, I think its county seat is Kokomo. It’s about an hour and a half north of Indianapolis. And Chairman Dunn hosted a group of 24 journalists at a State Department Foreign Press Center sponsored program during the Indiana primaries in late April. So he has been a greater supporter of the foreign press, and we’re really appreciative of that. So welcome Chairman Dunn.

MR DUNN: With the disclaimers I should probably also add that the views expressed by me don’t reflect my wife’s either. [Laughter]. She would like me to say that. She reminds me of that repeatedly.

I’ll give you a little background on myself so you can understand. I am a delegate to the convention. My initial goal when Jenny invited me to come and speak was to talk about the role of a delegate at the question. My guess is since I am from Indiana and know Mike Pence fairly well, and have worked to get him elected, you’ll probably have more interest in that particular topic than the role of a delegate, so we’ll dispense with that pretty quickly.

But I’ve been active in the political process at one level or another since I was 18 years old. We allowed 18 year olds to vote in 1972 when I was a high school senior, and I actually filed for election when I was still 17 and in May of that year was elected as a delegate to the Indiana Republican convention to select our governor candidate. So that’s a long time ago, I won’t tell you exactly how many years, but quite a few.

Since that point in time I’ve worked for a Congressman in Washington, Senator Richard Lugar in Washington doing campaign work, research work there. I worked for Governor Otis Bowen in Indiana, and several other congressional candidates, and for Mitch Daniels. As a matter of fact when I was working for Senator Lugar, Mitch Daniels, the Governor of Indiana at the time, was my immediate boss.

But my role is as County Chairman. I’m professionally an investment advisor and I’m our Congressional District Chairman also. There are 16 County Chairmen like me that I represent on our party’s State Central Committee.

So when Governor Pence came off the ballot in Indiana, we’ll be meeting next Tuesday to actually select who’s going to replace him as Governor as Indiana. We’ll be 22 people meeting in a closed session to make that decision.

So back to the role of the delegate at the convention. As you know, there’s both an official duty and an unofficial duty. The official duties, which are pretty limited, we are to be there to vote to both nominate our presidential candidate, our vice presidential candidate, and to serve on functioning committees such as Rules, the Platform Committee, and these are all real important functions. But you’ll find me maybe a little different politician because I’m not a professional politician. I’m a volunteer politician. I’ll be brutally honest with you. If you ask questions, you’ll get the truth from my perspective on this.

The basic duties of a delegate are more important on the unofficial side, and the unofficial side is to come here and service as a pep session group, a cheer block group, an advocacy group for our presidential candidate and our vice presidential candidate.

So you will find, if you look down on the floor of the convention, you will see people with bright yellow hats. Day-glow yellow hat. Their job down there, their official title is Whip, but those are the people that when you see somebody say oh, the cheering wasn’t loud enough or whatever, it may just be that the Whip’s not doing their job, because sometimes we cheer because it’s spontaneous; and other times we cheer because they come down there and go, “everybody up and cheer.” So it’s like a television program where they hold a sign up and say applause, or whatever.

And that’s not just this convention. It’s every convention.

So yes, the signs that are handwritten that say “Teachers for Trump” or “Teachers for Romney” or “Teachers for Clinton,” they weren’t written up by teachers. They were written up by volunteers in a back room to make it look like they’re spontaneous signs that have been made, but in fact it’s all a part of a pretty premeditated political approach to create programming for television. Because that’s the most important thing is how your candidate’s portrayed when the TV goes on. So that’s really our role.

Our role is also to provide a pretty good sized group of people to come that enables corporate America to come, sponsor and host events that brings government and corporations together. So you will see, yesterday for example, AT&T staged a luncheon, I think it’s their sixth one, for our delegates, where they didn’t say boy, we sure want your government to use AT&T products. They didn’t even really say we want you to use AT&T products. But it was come, we’ll feed you, we’ll treat you to a nice time, and we just want you feel good about AT&T. So we help, by the delegates coming in, it’s critical mass, creates an atmosphere that there can be an interaction between corporations and citizens and the political process that’s of a non-high pressured situation that gives us the ability to socialize together. So that’s really a lot of the function of the delegates.

How we’re selected? I hesitate when I was talking to the foreign press corps in my home town to really, I can explain our process in Indiana pretty well, but one of the great things about our political system in the United States is that we have, each state is a fairly autonomous entity politically. We make our own rules.

So both political parties are largely bottom-up organizations and not top-down. So that’s why if you were reading during the primary season that they were having a caucus here and they tentatively awarded nine delegates, but then they had another meeting later on and somebody else got those delegates, that process isn’t what we use in Indiana, but that’s the process that their state developed.

Ours is pretty simple. We have 57 delegates at the convention. 27 of those delegates are selected by congressional districts; three delegates are selected by each congressional district and then there are 27 at large delegates that are selected by the State Central Committee. Then there are three automatic delegates -- the National Committeeman, the National Committee Woman, and the State Party Chairman are all automatic votes that come.

The process for selecting on the district side is that the County Chairman and Vice Chairman meet and caucus and select people who have thrown their names into a hat and say I would like to go to the convention. There’s a vote on that, of those. So my district, congressional district, there are 16 counties, so there are 32 possible votes to select the district people from my area. However, we have a populous district in District 7 which primarily is in Indianapolis, our capital city, and there are two votes in that district because there’s only one county for the entire, the more populous area has fewer counties that plug into it. Then the process for the statewide at large delegates is the Chairman of the party, and the party leadership at the state level creates a ballot of people that have been past office holders, past party leaders, large contributors, and hard workers in the party. And they create a slate and present that to the State Central Committee which is made up of 22 members, and then we take the vote to decide who of those, and it’s usually a straight up and down vote. So we either approve the entire slate, or we have to open it up and nobody likes to do that because it means long meetings.

So anyway, that’s the process that we use in Indiana. Nobody asks you who you’re for before you’re selected. They don’t say were you backing -- Now Donald Trump won the state of Indiana quite handily, and we are bound by law, every delegate, to support Donald Trump. Whether we like it or not.

So I’ve got a dirty little secret to tell you. I was on the Steering Committee for John Kasich. I’m a John Kasich supporter. I endorsed him in October of last year. I was a financial contributor to John Kasich. I met with John Kasich several times. And my man lost, but I was selected as a delegate to come to the convention. And even if we had a contested convention on the first ballot, by Indiana law I would have supported him. So the battle that you saw on Monday night, not really much of a battle, a little screaming match there. Some states were trying to bust that bounding status because they felt that if they could get it to where I wasn’t forced to vote for Donald Trump -- their view is I was forced and coerced to do that. But if I wasn’t, then I’d vote for somebody else. That’s not true.

I personally made the decision that since my state so overwhelmingly voted for Donald Trump, that no matter what, I was going to support him even if we were unbound. And I think that was probably true with the majority of the delegates that were bound.

We’re ready to move on, we’re ready to unite. And then basically, it may not be a case this time of uniting as much behind a candidate as it is uniting against a common foe of Hillary Clinton.

So with that, I’ll conclude my remarks and entertain any questions you might have.

QUESTION: Hi, I’m David Smith of The Guardian.

Just picking up on your last point there, when you were for John Kasich, what were your main reservations about Donald Trump and do you still have some reservations?

MR DUNN: You know, I said I endorsed Kasich in October, and that was before we got into the heat of the primary season. So I did not pick John Kasich to support because I was anti-Trump. I was never really anti-Trump or anybody but Trump. I liked John Kasich. His state is right next to ours, and I think he’s a fine man. And frankly, I’m more of a social moderate personally. And Kasich, if you watched the first debate, I felt that he more closely reflected my views at that point in time. But that’s not to say that, you know, we’re a pretty big tent party and we have lots of views in our party, and I think there’s room in there for everybody of different beliefs. And as I say, my guy lost, but the wonder of the democratic system, whatever country the democratic system thrives in, is that you can fight and argue and wrestle, but when it’s all said and done, everybody’s on the same team at that point in time, and that’s really, it was my belief there. But that’s how I came about Kasich. So it wasn’t really an anti-Trump thing.

Now I will tell you, I know Ed O’Keefe that spoke. How I got to know Ed O’Keefe was that I made a comment to Politico back in, I guess it would have been the first week of April, I made an off-handed comment at the end of a 45-minute interview, and I said I’d like to thank you as representing the journalistic profession, for waiting until the 45th minute to ambush me in an interview over the telephone, but he wanted to know if there was any situation at all I could see myself voting for Donald Trump at the convention. And I told you, I’m brutally honest at times with the press. And I said well, if it came down to Satan and Donald Trump at the convention, I’d might consider supporting Donald Trump.

Well, they printed that. And as you might imagine, the Trump supporters didn’t appreciate that very well, and I went through about two weeks of threatening calls, threats against my life, my profession, and a little bit of everything else, because there were some people backing him at that point in time that were a little bit to the extremes, let’s just put it that way.

So Ed called me from the Washington Post to find out how life was and I kind of told him how life was at that point in time. So if anybody had a reason to not support Donald Trump, somebody to stay home, keep their marbles and stay away from the game, it would be me. But our country’s future, I believe, is far too important to let your personal prejudices get in the way, and my belief is that for world peace, for the security of your countries as well as our country, we need to have strong leadership at the helm, and my belief is that we’ve had nothing but vacillating leadership for the last eight years at the helm in foreign policy in the United States. Thank you.

QUESTION: Hello. My name is Robert Poredos from Slovenia Press Agency.

You mentioned that you worked with Richard Lugar too?

MR DUNN: Yes.

QUESTION: So how would you compare like a politician like Dick Lugar and Mike Pence? They’re both from Indiana. What are their similarities or--?

MR DUNN: Similarities are they’re men of absolute, unimpeachable character. Wonderful human beings.

Politically on issues such as defense and the economy, very similar. Probably when you get into world affairs, I think I would have to describe Richard Lugar as more of an internationalist than Mike Pence, but that’s because Lugar held very important positions on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and spent a lot of time with Sam Nunn working on nuclear disarmament and some of those issues.

Social issues, Lugar is probably a little more moderate than Mike Pence.

But Mike Pence, the one message that I would really like to convey is there’s going to be some areas that, you know, military affairs and those type of things that haven’t really been in his wheel house relative to his past responsibilities. I mean he has working knowledge of those because he was, after all, was the number three ranked person in the House of Representatives before he returned to Indian to run for Governor. But there will be some things, foreign leadership. He hasn’t interacted with all those people, I mean I think that goes without saying.

But on the key issue of character, which I think is very important, the man’s word is his bond. If he tells you as a reporter, gives you information, you can take it to the bank. He does not lie to reporters. He doesn’t obfuscate or mislead reporters. I’ve found him to be very honest and credible from that standpoint. And he is the type of person that if you wanted to go have a beer after the convention tonight, he’s the type of guy you’d sit down and want to have a beer with because he has just one of the best senses of humor that you can have.

He is known to say, and I haven’t heard him say it here at the convention yet or in the lead-up to the convention. Maybe he’ll save it for his speech tonight. But one of my favorite lines of Mike Pence is, he’ll say, “Well you know, I’m kind of like a turtle on a fence post. You know I didn’t get here by myself.” And he takes that kind of an attitude that he appreciates those people that have worked to help get him where he’s at.

Some politicians sometimes forget who you are once they get to a certain level. Mike Pence isn’t that type guy. He can go to a county fair and know the people who are working in the hog booths at our fairs with the pig sales and the cattle sales, and he remembers them from the previous year, calls them by name, and he’s just a fine quality person.

He will certainly pass, I’m sure that’s why he was able to pass the vetting process, because he will have a clean absolutely clean background. He’s just a great guy.

QUESTION: Thank you. My name is Ben [Bandrell], Washington-based journalist.

I have been coming to conventions since 2000 but I never seen so many empty seats in a convention like this one. As a Republican, do you worry about a devastating defeat in November?

MR DUNN: No. Not in the least. Not based on how many seats were at the convention. And here’s the reason why. Do you know what it costs to come to this convention? If you are an average person. I’ve got an alternate delegate back there and a guest of the convention and the cost is a minimum of $2500. So you’re talking about the people that Donald Trump appeals to, and I use the example of the first night I went home from the convention, taxicab with a driver that said that he didn’t make anywhere near the money that he used to make here in Cleveland because the factories have closed. And the jobs have gone overseas. Well I guarantee you, that Donald Trump supporter, which he informed me he was, was not going to spend $2500 to become a credentialed guest. We’re not talking about handing out $10 tickets in a parking lot. You’ve got to go get your credentials and all that.

Donald Trump’s strength is not in that area. His strength is with the common guy. And trust me, as somebody who has borne the brunt of their message from the common guy out there, he has an army of people.

I go in my town, and it’s very difficult for us to get people excited about presidential elections until usually September. I have seen three pickup trucks in my county where at their expense they’ve gone out and had a professional sign painter paint Trump 2016 on their pickup trucks. I have never seen that in my life politically.

I ordered an initial order of 500 Trump yard signs, which we don’t usually, we have an ordinance in my county that says you can’t even put up a yard sign until 30 days before the election. I have 500 of them that I pre-ordered just so I had them in, they’ve all been accounted for. Those will be, the second I open the doors of our campaign offices, they’ll be taken immediately. Those people don’t pay $2500 to come and watch a long series of speeches.

So you know, I know the narrative and the spin may be oh, there’s not as many people in the seats and that type of thing, but trust me on this one. There is a large number of people that will speak out at the polls and support Donald Trump, and this is coming from somebody that has not been a long-term Trump supporter. I’m just telling you what I’ve observed.

The gentleman from The Guardian. He probably witnessed, with the Brexit vote that people like taxi drivers and lorry drivers were very supportive in many cases of Brexit, but they’re not the political voices that were being heard, but they were thinking about this all along. And I think that’s what you’re going to see. I was telling Ed O’Keefe back there, I think you’ll see a Tory Factor, Tory Lie, I think is what they refer to it in Great Britain, relative to polling that I think you’ll see the people that might say I don’t want everybody to know that I’m supporting Donald Trump, but I think they’ll vote for him because we are tired of, as we see it, the decline of the American way of life here. And I know your perception of the American way of life and what our proper role should be in international affairs may vary significantly from our traditional view of that. But I will just tell you, there’s a lot of angst and anger out there. On both parties. The Bernie Sanders phenomena is, in my opinion, the reverse side of the same coin that Donald Trump has used to his advantage.

QUESTION: Hello, Mr. Dunn. This is Maurin Picard from Le Figaro from France.

I have a question about John Kasich. Do you regret personally that he decided not to attend the convention? And second, he had an interesting speech yesterday at the City Club on Euclid Avenue. He was saying he was extremely worried about the tones around the convention, the anti-immigration stance, the anti-multilateralist stance that we can hear from the isolationist occurrence. Do you share those worries from Mr. Kasich? Thank you.

MR DUNN: Let me take the first part of that question first.

As I said before, I endorsed Kasich in October. I also at that time wrote him a $1,000 check, which I don’t normally do with presidential candidates. I sat through four different meetings with him. I talked to the press a lot on his behalf. And I will tell you, and if there was one thing that comes out of this press briefing here, and if I could make sure that it showed up on the front page of the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or the USA Today, it would be that I am one of the most incredibly disappointed people in Governor Kasich that you could have.

We have a long tradition in the United States, whether it is in athletics or in politics or in business, that you are a good loser. You know, some people believe if you’re a good loser you’re a loser. But my belief is that we fight our battles in the primary season, and by the time the convention comes around we join together and become a team once again. And what’s made this even worse is with this being John Kasich’s state, I felt he was duty-bound to at least come and welcome the delegates to his state because he was one of the big advocates for the conventions to come either here or to Columbus. And so we have, and we’ve not been welcomed to it. So I’m disappointed from that standpoint.

Now let’s go talk about the international view and that. Yes, I’m troubled. I believe in treaties. I believe that treaties are contracts that bind both parties to those agreements. And I’m concerned about unilaterally abrogating international trade treaties or any other type of treaty for that matter.

It’s one thing to gradually change them over a period of time or negotiate those, but to unilaterally abrogate a treaty, I don’t believe in that. It makes you somewhat of an untrustworthy trade partner if you do those things.

But on some of those issues, I somewhat agree with Ed O’Keefe’s views that the reality of governance may be quite different than the views on the campaign trail and I think every president gets a lesson in his first hundred days in office that some of the things that seemed too easy to say you were going to do, you know, cure poverty, grow hair on bald men, and create an instant weight loss ingredient that will work on everybody, quickly fades away to the reality that you have to deal with Paul Ryan and Nancy Pelosi. You have to deal with Harry Reed. Those are the things that become realities at that point in time that every president learns, sometimes to their chagrin, but I think that’s what will happen in this case.

So long term, he’s going to surround himself with some very talented advisors, both on foreign policy and trade. So long term, I’m not as concerned about that. He’s done a lot of international business in the past and I think people will find him to be a reasonable person as he gets his sea legs under him.

QUESTION: Hi, I’m Anna from Brazil. [Folha de Sao Paolo].

In a scale of one to ten, how conservative is Donald Trump for you? And will that be [enough]?

MR DUNN: Well, I mentioned that I’m not a social conservative, so some of the things that he gets raps on doesn’t bother me at all.

I would say based on the politicians that I know, I would put him maybe on a 7 on the spectrum of being a conservative, and there are traditional measurements of that. So that doesn’t necessarily concern me in the least, but I know there are people that would be concerned about and that’s frankly, why Mike Pence is on this ticket, because it pretty much validates and gives him his bonafides as a legitimate conservative.

QUESTION: Hi, Mr. Dunn. I’m from Germany newspaper, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

I appreciate your concern for party unity. I also appreciate how you see that people from a certain social sphere have found somebody in a way that hasn’t happened before and that you support that. Still, for somebody who has supported John Kasich before, who was the guy who said repeatedly in debate, guys, this is crazy, we can’t fight like this, et cetera. I assume that is your view in general as well. Where do you draw the line? Or maybe put differently, the past two nights of the convention, were you ever uneasy with what you heard? Were you chanting “lock her up” with everybody else? Did you feel Chris Christy was doing your party a favor by indicting Hillary Clinton the way he did? Do you think that she is personally responsible for the death of a number of people, even though so many committees have said the opposite? I mean where do you think, as somebody who has supported quite a difference, do you have to stand up and say I’m all for unity but there’s a point where we have to stop this negativity?

MR DUNN: No, yes, no, maybe, yes, no. [Laughter].

One thing I’ve learned from politics is when you get multiple part questions, you’ve got to go back and make sure we all understand the question.

I think I know the tone of what you’re talking about. As I’m sitting out there am I comfortable with everything that is said on the stage? No.

But in 2012 when Mitt Romney, I was a Mitt Romney supporter both financially and organizationally, did I agree with everything that was said on the stage then? No, I didn’t.

Was I happy in 2008 with John McCain’s pick for vice president, Sarah Palin? No, I wasn’t.

But that’s the beauty of our political system is that it allows us to have a diversity opinion.

Would I say that I support 80 percent of the ultimate goal of what’s being said in terms of where we want to go? Yes.

Do I support exactly, you know, was I yelling “lock up Hillary” or whatever? No.

Do I believe that the FBI Director was being honest when he said that he believed it was a disqualifying behavior for her to have private servers and jeopardize United States security with her cavalier handling of her electronic communications? Absolutely, I believe that.

Now, there’s some believe that’s a criminal offense. I don’t know if it is or not. The FBI apparently didn’t believe it. But he did believe it was a disqualifying event.

So I’m not a Hillary Clinton fan by any stretch of the imagination, but how it’s said, in this campaign we have seen overstating of views and exaggeration of views because that is his political strategy. If no one’s told you basic, the strategy that he has used, I’ll take just about 30 seconds to tell you. With 17 candidates, you do not need 51 percent of the people to love you. All you need is about 30 percent. And you can lock up the nomination in a 17 candidate field. And that is his strategy from the beginning, was to bring the most extreme viewpoint and supporters, bring them on board, lock down that nomination by SuperTuesday. I believe this, he hasn’t told me this because I don’t talk to him. But to pivot then to a fall campaign. But the problem was that pesky Ted Cruz and John Kasich did not go away because they were running a strategy that was based on deny Donald Trump the win on the first ballot and then bound delegates like myself would be free to vote for whoever they wanted to. So they hung around an extra two and a half months, and it did not afford him the ability to pivot and go to a fall election strategy.

You will not see, you’ll see some incendiary things maybe said, but for the most part there’s going to be a lot of toning down of some of the message that he’s going to use for that reason.

So yeah, there’s delegates out there that are kind of like oh, no, no, no. She didn’t, she didn’t kill your child. Now she may have beliefs that foster a system that enabled that to happen, but there’s a big leap between those two things.

QUESTION: Hi, I’m [inaudible], the [Sun Times], [inaudible] newspaper.

As someone who has known Governor Pence, do you think how difficult or easy was it for him to decide to be vetted to run with Donald Trump? Somebody who had been turned down by --

MR DUNN: I’m going to be brutally honest with you on this one. And this may get me in trouble if anybody reports this back to Mike Pence. I have this thing about politicians that I say that the difference between you and me and people that run for president, senator, governor, is that I get up in the morning and I see a balding, older, overweight guy staring back at me in the mirror when I brush my teeth in the morning. Those guys see the next president of the United States, the next governor, the next senator, fill in the blank. It is what goes with a political animal. You either have that attitude that I’m looking at greatness every morning.

I believe that for the last ten years it’s been Mike Pence’s goal to be president of the United States. So I don’t believe it was a difficult decision at all for him to accept this vice presidential nomination.

He gave up a very strong, powerful position in Congress to come back to be governor. Why? Because we don’t elect representatives in Congress to be president of the United States. We require them to have administrative experience, so he came back to get administrative experience a governor and that’s why I believe he did that.

QUESTION: I have a second question. It’s a big night tonight. What do you expect him to say to rally the party around the ticket, which is missing at the moment?

MR DUNN: I think the first thing he’ll say, and I’m going to love it because it’s going to be millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of free publicity for the state of Indiana. We’re very proud of our state. We are the island of prosperity in a sea of misery in the Midwest in terms of the economy. Our unemployment rate is the lowest in the Midwest. Our job growth rate is the highest in the Midwest. Our work force participation is the largest in the entire history of Indiana. And you’re looking at a national government right now to where our work force participation is at its lowest point in a century that we’re looking at.

So I’m looking forward to him extolling the achievements that we’ve had in the state of Indiana over the last four years. I think he’ll then move into talking about issues that are of concern to social conservatives. He may talk about what he believes is the appropriate definition of marriage. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I think that will come up possibly. And I definitely know that he will not do a speech without a reference to the sanctity of life and his view that the lives of the unborn babies need to be protected. That will definitely be in that speech.

Then I think more finally, I meet so many of your requirements out there and so many of you agree with my basic beliefs here on these key social issue, you should transfer your allegiance essentially from Ted Cruz, a social conservative, or Marco Rubio, social conservative, and bring that support to Donald Trump because I’ve met him now, I’ve talked to him, he’s good people, and you can trust him. And I think that’s what the talk will be tonight. And if it’s not, forget everything I just said. [Laughter].

QUESTION: My name is Catherine Lankes with the Austrian Press Agency and the Austrian newspaper the Kronen Zeitung.

MR DUNN: I was just there in June. Loved it. It’s beautiful.

QUESTION: Great to hear.

Do you think that Donald Trump is the right person to unite a country that seems to find itself, I don’t know, left of the center, and to overcome the cleavage?

MR DUNN: I hate to play the game of moral relativism, but I believe, as Ed O’Keefe told you earlier today, it is no secret that we are running the two least popular people in politics for president of the United States. Maybe only in the United States is the only place you could have two candidates that seemingly very few people like, and they’re our standard bearers for our parties.

I believe the decision will be made, and I make the decision the same way, who is best for the future of our country between those two people? Not, we’re past the point in time of who’s the best possibly, to now of the choices we have, who is the best between those people?

So in answer to your question, of the main political party candidates, I believe Donald Trump is more qualified to lead us into the future than Hillary Clinton.

QUESTION: Thank you for doing this. I’m Kris Ronneberg with the Norwegian newspaper Aftensposten.

I’d like to follow up on that because you mentioned earlier, as well, that this is not an issue about being united with someone but against someone. And in order to let a message go through to the public and get them out there to vote in November, I guess you’re going to convince them not just that Hillary is dangerous, but also that you have some kind of policy that they can get behind. And so far during this convention we’ve heard very little policy. Yesterday was supposed to be Make America Work Again, and it was all about how awful Hillary Clinton is as a candidate and as a person.

So do you --

MR DUNN: But how that benefits the economy is all the people producing signs that said, Make America Work Again, so that was the subliminal message there.

QUESTION: That’s probably a good long-term effect, yeah.

But when do you think the party is going to make the argument why people should vote for Republicans at this election and not just the fear of Hillary Clinton?

MR DUNN: I once worked for a governor candidate who ran an entire campaign without telling anybody anything that he was going to do. He just told them he was going to do the best he could. And his view was, if I tell them what I’m specifically going to do, every time I tell them specifically what I’m going to do, I’m going to lose voters.

Folks, one of the ugly secrets of democracy is that you let highly intelligent people vote and you also let people who may get their news from a comic show on TV or a comic book or maybe just a political cartoon that they see. The low information voter. And so the unfortunate fact is that waging a war of ideas, which I would particularly like to see, faced with the television. And now you know, guys that look like me don’t get elected to office. We have to be county chairman. In the 18th century I could have maybe been something. I could have been a contender back then. But not now. But that’s the world that we’re in.

You know, you can’t lay out and say what you’re going to do. Hypotheticals, you know, they teach politicians never answer hypotheticals. The whole comments relative to building the wall between the United States and Mexico is probably one of the most dangerous political statements ever made, because it wasn’t made just once. It’s been made every day in this campaign. People are going to expect a wall to be built and they’re going to expect Mexico to pay for it. And I believe, I’m afraid I believe with Ed O’Keefe, that wall is never going to be built, and Mexico is never going to pay for that wall. That’s a difference I have with him.

But I believe that has political dangers to it because as Ed also pointed out, two years after you take office there’s an off-year election and voters normally express their retribution for candidates that may have misjudged the electorate with some of the statements that they’ve made.

I don’t know if I even came close to answering your question with that. I’ll chalk that off to a language difference.

Thank you very much for having me. I enjoyed it.

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